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Thread: DRGunZ 4.3 Balancing

  1. #1

    DRGunZ 4.3 Balancing

    (I'll make a tonne of threads on the issue and surrounding it then)

    DRGunZ as of 4.2 (or 1.2, whatever you wanna call it) is atleast up. The dev teams essentially undid the damage of horrible 100% equality patch (A perfect example of how to take a concept way too far). That said 4.2 is better but it still needs alot of work. Balancing is just 1 of the things again needs to be worked on but the non developers are generally (mostly) too busy or lazy to actually take a serious look at what needs to be changed to what, why, and then deal with all the trolls that are sure to amass threads like this on the same subject.

    You've got your uneducated misinformed mass trolls and your evil seed trolls. The first is self explanatory, while the second are your classic ones which may have nothing better to do OR an ulterior motive that will serve to make things better for them (or their "friends" [bacterial scum]). These people know who they are and nobody wants to deal with them. Staff don't have to worry about them because of the intimidation factor but they are numerous and unavoidable. "You don't think I do this for my country?". The uninformed masses could learn something if they just listened. If they listened (read) they'd no longer be trolls but it's those who don't listen who end up being the continual part of the problem. To everyone else, I hope we can have a good discussion about the overarching balance concepts of 4.2 and what needs to be implemented in 4.3 without shying away from anything or changing the subject for your own impatient benefits. We'll get through everything in due time and save DR.

    Let's actually get started then...

    4.2s BALANCING PROBLEMS
    Where to start? Anywhere. So I'll pick something that matters to everyone. The overall HP AP values of all the players.

    Look, GunZ incorporates leveling so this should vary and increase as it goes up. The differences should be grander so that leveling is atleast noticeable but not to the point that questing to 99 becomes the end all be all factor of GunZ. Of course the player alone is a multitude of concepts, from skill, weapons, hp/ap, connection, controls, PC specs and how their level affects their potential hp/ap weapons items but since the level of the items people use matters, we should reward people for leveling by atleast making the previous weapons obsolete in almost every way. (including looks, which is another problem. Some of the weapons are so ugly that it just doesn't matter what level it is, some of you don't want to wear them. This game has become somewhat of a joke now visually. You've just got a bunch of clowns running around wearing all sorts of weird stuff that takes away from the game's setting and overall vibe)

    Currently things are highly equal, but not like the old GunZs we used to play though partially imbalanced, atleast had an idea of balance continued throughout as well as adequate in-class VARIATION.

    A lack of variety is one of the problems here. We need weight tiers (for rings [light, normal, heavy] and weapons) and concept change ups (delay AND damage change ups with weight play for as well for more variance). We are the characters here, so lets put some of the "creativity" into the weapon and item selection and not just "the basic set at level 50 and how colourful you can make your clown" etc.

    Sigh, I guess it's time for an incredibly detailed example...

    Aneila's current level 65 gear set not including the incredibly good fashion I have selected [lol] (screw you, especially you ugly people. You can't even spell fashion even after reading it here. Go put on your clown outfits)

    Code:
    Health Points: 118
    Armour Points: 106
    Total Weight: 58/100
    Ring 1: "Equality Ring" (Level 0, HP 9, AP 53, Weight 10),
    Ring 2: "Equality Ring"
    Melee: "Steampunk Kodachi" (Kodachi. Level 65, Damage 21, Delay 260ms, Weight 10)
    Gun Slot 1: "Scar" (Assault Rifle. Level 65, Damage 19, Delay 100ms, Rounds 36, Magazines 5, Weight 12)
    Gun Slot 2: "Cru x2" (Revolvers Akimbo. Level 65, Damage 48, Delay 450ms, Rounds 6, Magazines 6, Weight 8)
    Item Slot 1: "Bulletkit" (Extra Magazine. Level 50, Delay 1000, Rounds 3, Weight 4)
    Item Slot 2: "Bulletkit"


    (I'm currently H-Styling [using moves like JSD, DashShot, SS, HS, YoyoStep, etc] so my equips generally match gunner. I like mid to long range so I'm using mid/long range weapons. I don't like shotguns because, yes, they're STILL OP and I'll get to that later. I'm using low rings because this is essentially a training set for me. I would put on normal rings for something important. Really I should just take off the rings, and to be honest I often do.)

    Odd isn't it? (screw you, idiots) I mean the fact that it's only 58/100 weight. In IGunZ and the old DRGunZ, with the best rings for your level, you would be struggling and unable to stay under 100/100, (hence the beauty of rings that added extra weight points and the need for rings that gave you less HP/AP but weighed less). But wait, before we get into the seemingly obvious solution of just making everything weigh more we have to look at the fact that in the original GunZ and old DR, fights lasted longer because there was more HP/AP to work with and also, "Anti-Lead" didn't exist (people still have the definition of "leading" wrong).


    So all round we need more HP/AP in general to work with and way more rings. All the weights probably need to go up on all things somewhat and we need to start capping our weights with equipping gear being almost a game in itsself. Since the clothes we wear are of 0 weight/importance now, the rings become the concept of a full set of armor. Adjust that as necessary (How to do this? Hypothetical gearsets. Make it like the old DR where we had multiple ring types and way more rings). Meds for example, should be "almost unwearable" (something needs to be sacrificed) or completely unwearable with the best set of rings/gear and say dual shotguns (a staple due to the fact that they're so much more effective over powered in comparison to other weapons [gun weight matters when comparing the overall effectivity. For example, if machineguns IRL were lighter than assault rifles, they'd be used more, but they aren't used more than assault rifles IRL because they're "too heavy"] much more on this later). Even unequipping melee for the sake of more weight so you can put on EVEN HEAVIER gear (at the cost of greater evasion) should be a very realistic and doable option in this game.

    There were always 2 kinds of styles in GunZ. How you played and what your gear set was. The latter was equally, if not more, important due to the diversity, complexity and actual gameplay of just figuring out what armor to put on and how to have it all fit. One benefit of the PServers was supposed to be "you don't have to look shitty while figuring out your awesome, perfectly weighted, tailored-to-you gear set. This has become perverted and lapsed into "GunZ is just a shell of a real game with K-Style and you can wear anything you want on our PServer". It's pidgeon-holed and to only think of people who could care less about all these things is the reason real gamers would rather play a game with proper balancing, like BF or CS. This is what I meant by taking the game seriously. All of these tiny things matter because it reflects how much the developers cared to present a well balanced true experience.

    Admittedly, certain people only care about certain weapons in GunZ, but these people are probably only here on an ego trip or that of someone else's. And a free one at that. The International GunZ community quickly became a massive shit talking community that found common place in League of Legends (not surprising at all). It's funny, since DotA 1 requires people purchase Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne and since Counter-Strike is one of the games GunZ was based on with both being games that you have to pay for, that there was not surprisingly far less shit talking and rude idiotic behaviour in those games then there are in these ones (GunZ, LoL, DotA 2). The communities of DotA, CS and UT were essentially exclusive because you had to fork over the cash. This kept the unwilling scum away, but with no barrier they've arrived. Of course give any game enough time and it will become overrun with scum. The current DotA 1 scene, which created the League of Legends community, and the DotA 2 community (both trashy) are all terrible and the current state of GunZ when even the original GunZ was an interesting learning experience for all sorts of players with respect and fun all round has devolved into this rude pile of shit talker and hater shit. This in turn affects the development of game when the dev teams are picked from said community and I'm not saying anything negative about our CURRENT devs.

    As a result there is but only 1 GunZ that has continued to develop at a good quality--that of Maiet's. Case and point GunZ 2, with all its problems. I do still however have hope for DRGunZ community as the devs here continue to turn blind eyes to the obvious unfair pandering certain gamers want for themselves. Even as a joke, to make light of obvious imbalance doesn't help when those around you might find it somewhat true and use it as a basis when push comes to shove (ie right now) and truthfully, even the people making the joke in the first place would only make it because they don't understand the reality of the situation or because they're not exposed to it, all whilst still not helping.

    I digressed but it was important to get that across at some point before going on...

    ~

    4.3'S WEAPON AND RING SYSTEM //not even close to done yet.

    GunZ: The Duel International Edition

    Aka IGunZ. Like I said above, the game was actually quite balanced even though shotguns unfairly reigned supreme devaluing all the other weapons as a result. So instead of "fixing DR" which at this point is something to do, it is harder than say simply modelling DR GunZ once again more closely after IGunZ and simply fixing IGunZ. But while we could fix IGunZ that would clearly be unfair to the playerbase used to the imbalance for all those years. I respect that slightly but not entirely, DR had even slightly better balancing overall for a time and so (for all those who truly know about how GunZ was developed from games like CS):

    Every other 2 handed weapon in GunZ except shotguns will have their overall conceptual nerf of roughly 33% or more down, lowered to only something as high as a maximum of a 20% nerf.
    Why?

    Shotguns generally have a myriad of weights. You can have super light shotguns and superheavies (heavy ones are more common). If we were to balance the game realistically, shotguns would generally be heavier but incredibly weak at most ranges except virtually point blank (currently not the case) when facing armored targets. As a result the play would be to counter this by allowing shotgun users to wear lighter armour in general, have the lighter melee weapons equipped as well as less items like grenades or kits. Since however the shotguns are so incredibly effective their weights should reflect that in comparison to say rifles that would be used in GunZ at most ranges. This is where there's a problem with GunZ.

    Infact in GunZ due to the realistic ranges present in the game the weapon of choice would be a carbine assault rifle or an assault rifle for acquisition and stopping power efficiency (speed of target decimation). If we look at any map and remove dashing and excessive tumbling, the weapon of choice all round would be a carbine assault rifle. For more extreme ranges we'd be using a higher power rifle like a battle rifle or long-gun (sniper rifles included). For closer ranges, the weapon of choice would be a sub machine gun emphasising overall stopping power over some sort of augmented pistol operation (in other words the choice would be PDWs) and semi-automatic (or fully automatic...) shotguns firing buck (no point using a pump action shotgun when the enemy has an automatic weapon. Shotguns are not easy to fire quickly repeatedly)

    So what about the effectivity of a shotgun's in air pellet spread and the width of that?

    Well the correct term for what comes out of a shotgun is spray.

    Every time a shotgun fires SHOT (buckshot) it is like it has fired a quick press of a spray bottle you use to mist plants and "spray" Windex. The term spray is used to define the in air travel of multiple particles in a grouped flight between source and target. Therefore this defines things like shotguns and extremely fast firing weapons that shoot their magazines as if they were firing all of them as "shot" or "buckshot" (Ingram MAC-11). When a target has been hit by spray the result on the target left behind is a spread pattern.

    Most automatic weapons do not spray (semi automatic shotguns spray). They never spray when used normally or even "improperly or with bad aim". Bad aim is just bad aim. A spray does not accurately define someone who uses a rifle or machine gun but rather someone who uses a shotgun. You can talk about a spray of bullets but it is what we call an exaggeration. While it is possible to create a spray of bullets you would effectively need a wall of people firing bullets like say a firing squad.

    Moving on, the shotgun spray does increase it's hit capacity (chance of hitting a target) but the spray of a shotgun in GunZ is actually far too wide compared to the realistic spray of a shotgun. We could change it now even if we've had it this way for 9 years. 10 for some. We try to equate GunZ as a game that shoots something like military double-O buck. Few pellets in the shot, high damage (like a weak pistol round. Smaller wound channels, less penetration).

    Rifles in comparison have much more force behind them be they assault, carbine, battle rifle, sniper rifle. Carbine assault rifles can have 4 to 10 times as much force compared to #1 buck pellet. That's right. 4 to 6. And that's just carbines. The spread of rifles of course in GunZ after fully automatic fire is a tighter mess than shotguns. There's also a very tiny bit of vertical recoil in GunZ.

    It only gets higher the more you look at rifles in general. There's a reason they're the standard military ground troop weapon. So when I said rifles were nerfed by a value of 33% I was being generous. Most of the rifle class weapons in Counter-Strike and Battlefield actually do more than 40 HP damage. The nerfing is something close to 50% or more in IGunZ and even here.

    In GunZ, shotgun fire is probably #1 Buckshot or something close to that with no choke (hence the incredibly high unrealistic spread). As "useful" as it seems it is totally unrealstically bullshit. When people say you don't have to aim with shotguns in GunZ, what they mean is that the spread is so horribly wide that you don't have to put nearly as much effort into hitting a target as you would with any non shotgun type weapon (infact if you miss with a shotgun, something is wrong with you, the enemy is up in your grill dancing around at point blank range or they're in and out of cover too fast for you to shoot).

    12 Pellets and 8 damage with the level 0 shotgun. 96 damage overall. Realistic damage yes. You can survive a shotgun shot. The pellets are small and they'll chop right through you but punctured lungs are bad for your health and hearts don't like pellets either. Armor factor is a thing. It's a rough fatality value. Obviously at 9 damage a pellet we're post 100 damage. The way armor works in GunZ is of a depletion concept. You get points and then once you're out you're unarmored and ready to die. OK you get it, shotguns do way too much damage in comparison to rifles. Where should their weight be?

    Raise them all. If a shotgun is super effective it's because it's a really good shotgun firing a well matched buckshot. A heavy duty sturdy machine. For the record most assault rifles are lighter than most shotguns due the clunkyness of the mechanism required to load shotgun shells and those massively heavy barrels needed to not be destroyed from the buck bouncing and sliding off of that choked tube. What else should we do with shotguns? Decrease that spread a bit. It really is a joke how much spread shotguns have right now and if we tighten it, people will start to feel the pain others feel when trying to hit moving targets especially those in GunZ. Anything else we should do to shotguns? When all the guns are getting a damage buff (except revolvers and single revs and sniper rifles), we exclude shotguns and leave them where they are. We also lower the weight of the weapons that should be the most effective: Rifles and Smgs. And we make sure to keep the weight of handguns extremely low.

    Here's some ballistics damage comparisons (math time):
    (I'm not making this up)

    #1 Buckshot pellet impact velocity of 1337ft/s
    MOMENTUM ? (407.5 m/s) * 2.62 g = 1.06765 N⋅s [m⋅kg/s]
    KINETIC ENERGY ? (((407.5 m/s) ^ 2) * 2.62 g) / 2 =
    >217.53 J< [kg⋅m2⋅s−2]

    .45 ACP JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point bullet for handguns)
    KINETIC ENERGY ?
    >>614 J<<
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP

    5.5645mm NATO DM11 FMJBT (Steel-Core Euro NATO rifle round)
    KINETIC ENERGY ?
    >>>>1,796 J<<<<
    IKR?

    //to be continued
    Peace
    Last edited by Aneila; 28-10-2014 at 02:17 AM. Reason: Scratching the Surface

  2. #2
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    if i'm wrong please correct me so what your saying is rings should be Heavy= more HP/AP and light= less HP/AP and for weapons Heavy= higher delay and more dmg while light weapons= lower delay and less dmg this seems be my summery of what your trying to say with i agree this is good way provide nice system in with the players have choice and variety to a game but if i can suggest something i dunno if donor/event sets give stats and if they don't please make donor and events free or cheaper cause i don't wonna pay money "look" pretty also on the whole people running round like clown i say that part don't matter in this game cause it old as fuck i was playing this since i was a Terumi jr if you want old game like this have "visual vibes" then your in wrong place cause as privet server you want different looks and different style. Now for my opinion i agree with this concept cause it something i thought be great but too much lazy asshole put on notice as long you don't add stupid shit like duel shotguns, machine gun or fucken duel large sword cause face it, it fucken stupid as for melee i think should stay way it always have been for million of games daggers= fast light wgt and weak swords= neutral duel swords = sightly heavy, fast, slightly less dmg large swords= heavy, low delay and high dmg, as for weapons thing shouldn't be that hard to balance SG has shittly acc kinda heavy with decent dmg for more dmg sacrifice ammo it like do you want hold more or less for range weapons what you should make it where high wgt and low ammo= high dmg while weapons with light wgt and alot ammo = little dmg with balancing all you need know what the cost and benefits gonna be these are the TRUE BALANCE of a game can i sacrifice this so i get more of this etc in reality if you think too hard on this your gonna fuck up if your unsure about something post it and ask the community before hand and let us tell you what we think so people feel more involve in the development and not get something awful out nowhere and insult you guys then players get ban because if you insult staff once you get in trouble (with is really stupid cause depending on insult you shouldn't be THAT offended and the who mutual respect thing bullshit too cause that doesn't exist) plus dunno if your advertising cause last time i ask that i got a rude "i explain this million time go find out yourself" so PLEASE tell me your advertising right now cause we need more people on so we can get more idea and junk plus i know you put up a suggestion thread with is nice but it also be REALLY FUCKEN CONVENIENT if you post a plan patchlog like a month before the actual release because we can see it and give you guys better idea what we want cause at the end it not the dev or staff team working on server themselves but for us the members

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Terumi View Post
    if i'm wrong please correct me so what your saying is rings should be Heavy= more HP/AP and light= less HP/AP and for weapons Heavy= higher delay and more dmg while light weapons= lower delay and less dmg this seems be my summery of what your trying to say with i agree this is good way provide nice system in with the players have choice and variety to a game but if i can suggest something i dunno if donor/event sets give stats and if they don't please make donor and events free or cheaper cause i don't wonna pay money "look" pretty also on the whole people running round like clown i say that part don't matter in this game cause it old as fuck i was playing this since i was a Terumi jr if you want old game like this have "visual vibes" then your in wrong place cause as privet server you want different looks and different style. Now for my opinion i agree with this concept cause it something i thought be great but too much lazy asshole put on notice as long you don't add stupid shit like duel shotguns, machine gun or fucken duel large sword cause face it, it fucken stupid as for melee i think should stay way it always have been for million of games daggers= fast light wgt and weak swords= neutral duel swords = sightly heavy, fast, slightly less dmg large swords= heavy, low delay and high dmg, as for weapons thing shouldn't be that hard to balance SG has shittly acc kinda heavy with decent dmg for more dmg sacrifice ammo it like do you want hold more or less for range weapons what you should make it where high wgt and low ammo= high dmg while weapons with light wgt and alot ammo = little dmg with balancing all you need know what the cost and benefits gonna be these are the TRUE BALANCE of a game can i sacrifice this so i get more of this etc in reality if you think too hard on this your gonna fuck up if your unsure about something post it and ask the community before hand and let us tell you what we think so people feel more involve in the development and not get something awful out nowhere and insult you guys then players get ban because if you insult staff once you get in trouble (with is really stupid cause depending on insult you shouldn't be THAT offended and the who mutual respect thing bullshit too cause that doesn't exist) plus dunno if your advertising cause last time i ask that i got a rude "i explain this million time go find out yourself" so PLEASE tell me your advertising right now cause we need more people on so we can get more idea and junk plus i know you put up a suggestion thread with is nice but it also be REALLY FUCKEN CONVENIENT if you post a plan patchlog like a month before the actual release because we can see it and give you guys better idea what we want cause at the end it not the dev or staff team working on server themselves but for us the members
    Firstly I haven't finished the post and what you're talking about in terms of the actual balancing is the "bread and butter" people are referring to when someone says "balancing". However what I covered generally about actual balancing is also extremely important and needs to be taken into account when talking about the actual balancing of weapons and understanding whether or not things need a nerf or other things need a buff or ways to make the game more enjoyable in general for everyone. Next I know I got a bit personal about the whole gear thing but of course people would think that "who cares, we're just wearing what we want, however, if you look at alot of other games, you can't wear what you want, and the games portray an atmosphere because of it. Sure, people go ahead and mod those games specifically so they can, but the masses are there for the theme in the first place. If GunZ was a better game, it'd be the world of Travia and Axium that'd you log in to, yet still have all this while being a better game. We should somewhat aspire towards a better game as a whole, but then the mod community being strong in other places would tempt some of us to say "clearly it's because they have all sorts of wacky gear they can wear so we should do that too. When infact, the sense of community and longevity in general is what is holding those communities together, including DR.

    The last thing I'll say about clothing sets in DRGunZ is that while it is perfectly ok for everyone to wear whatever they want, I think it is somewhat sad when the introduction of these gear sets is somewhat empty and dropped in, almost foresaking the people who take the game more seriously, which is again my point, because I do think that it actually drives people away when the game supports all sorts of retarded stuff but still has mediocre balancing. If you saw this in some other game you'd think "screw that, clearly the devs don't care about an as-good-as-can-be experience". Example: Saint's Row vs GTA. And I know it's far fetched and I know not everyone agrees but you can still see the logic somewhat. I'm not going to apologize for putting the topic about clothing sets in the opening balancing thread because it was related to it in IGunZ which this games hearkens back to alot, as well as ijji's newer clothing sets, included or not. The models used for some of the weapons is a more prevalent discussion. People made the argument "why does GunZ need an exact replica of a real life gun or weapon? Aren't there so many other games that already do that? Didn't GunZ already have it's own weapons items and lore?

    Now about your reply "correct you if I'm wrong" alright. Yes for the rings, no for the weapons in general. When you combine the damage and the delay of a weapon you get it's DPS. This should go up in general the heavier the weapon is. You can also vary this so it's a little bit "spicy" by messing around with the delays and damage in a more dramatic manner yet have the DPS values still equate to something that is a steady increase in level and weight, when you consider cross class weapons : smgs, rifles, mgs. I don't really know much about donor/event weapons. I was going to give those their own category of discussion outside of the general weapon balancing to be honest. You're right about me saying variety and balance is what I want overall as well as leveling incentive. I now have to jump down to the "mutual respect" thing. It's a real concept and you're either disenfranchised to it for 1 reason or another but it is a strong starting point for all societies and communities. DRGunZ and DR Network included. In a way this shouldn't be a "as soon as someone does something rude or dispresectful I have the credence to go ape shit" idea but rather a respect first and foremost, and if suddenly things start going sour, you don't have to interact with that person continuing to be a sourpuss. GunZ seriously needs an "ignore" feature as the few options: v, general chat off, they aren't enough. That'd be something to develop for the long term. So many games have blacklist features, it'd be nice to have it in this one.

    Everything else you said about the weapons i'm generally on board however you've clearly leftout the DPS/damage rate factors because you don't know about them. It's really important and I'll cover them next update to the thread which will be within the next 24 hours. And for the record, don't insult staff. I'm not some white knight either. I've said mean things to people, including staff, even recently, and I should apologize for it whether I was treating them like another community member or not, no one deserves that kind of treatment, however, emotions run high when something people care about has so many problems. It's weird because the clear step of caring this much or more about the game you play is to become an even stronger community member. Next step for me would probably be to apply to become a developer here.

    Not gonna happen. Weird eh?

    And yes, I'm atleast telling people about DR if they've played it before and I know them. I don't know much about advertising hardcore but you raise a good point, I could advertise more for the sake of the community and the server.

    Also I agree with the planned patch log posting. Infact I think they already do that somewhat. Anyway, the rest of this thread is coming. Thanks for your reply. Please consider the use of better punctuation in the future. (reading that was an adventure)

  4. #4
    You might want to headline some of your giant box paragraphs if you want people to read and understand this from head to toe
    otherwise they are going to read an on-going wall of text and no information will add up and process properly for most of the people who would view this
    not bashing you, making a suggestion to help people understand what you're trying to say

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Shino View Post
    You might want to headline some of your giant box paragraphs if you want people to read and understand this from head to toe
    otherwise they are going to read an on-going wall of text and no information will add up and process properly for most of the people who would view this
    not bashing you, making a suggestion to help people understand what you're trying to say
    Will do, grateful for the critique.

  6. #6
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    As long as there are skillmaps I will play.

    ;D
    Quote Originally Posted by SCARY NEO View Post
    Add skillmaps please.












  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aneila View Post
    Peace
    Perfect tl;dr, short and precise.

  8. #8
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    it seems pretty balanced. i kill people, and some people kill me. i think it works.

  9. #9
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    Here's the itemlist file, you can edit it with your idea into it and then we'll see if it fits or not
    The HP AP shouldnt have a big difference due to DRGunZ not having a channel system compared to IJJI
    zitem.zip

  10. #10
    So I'm going to be updating this thread shortly by going into weapon balancing. There will be a strong emphasis on how this all works together with rings and it'll be taking nods from IGunZ weight play as well as a system to greatly emphasize gear creativity and punish people for simply equipping the "best" things for their level. The point of that being to BALANCE THE GAME. I'll be attacking oddly OP things here first like sniper rifles, single revolvers and shotguns but don't get me too confused about shotguns. I'm actually going to buff those visually (all of their stats will go up a bit) but since everything else is getting a major buff (except single revs and sniper rifles that DR went crazy on) and since rings are getting massive buffs essentially this will result in quite the nerf for shotguns. The point is to not change the way shotguns work for people who like them. Delays and what not are reported to be of major concern for people and I understand and respect that. Since everyone will have way more HP and AP, shotgun users will get what they want and go back to finding new excuses when they get wrecked still have to work harder, something like how everyone else does for their kills.

    This reply here can be considered a bullet points of the update but I'll do it in detail. You can respond to this as if it had more detail but just keep checking for updates to the thread's main post. I'm literally writing it up now. And yes I see the zitem, but no, I'm not going to go into it and "work everything into it" on my own. First of all, this is what should've been done properly from the getgo with a team of people who understand all of the above. Secondly I'm not a dev so while I will take a look at it and grab some values I would pretty much scrap the whole thing in favour of the zitem and actual items from older versions of DR anyway. We had better clothing sets, less clown crap and the game felt more grounded and balanced. So I won't even consider editing the zitem until we go through a second thread that will be named something like this one:

    DRGunZ 4.3/4.4 Full Gear Options and Sets, Graphics

    And even before that there's still meds, nades, elements and gametype experience balancing. (As it stands people are STILL leveling up way too fast, maybe this is just because our population is so low but that should be incentive for us to fix and advertise) to deal with too and unique DR GunZ / GunZ customization in general so while the balance and leveling is an equivalent slope or curve, the curve doesn't have to be 100% smooth or pure dps only increases. Maybe some guns will just have massive clips and only a very very slight DPS improvement or something like that (just an example, power-down your engines).

    Anyway again thanks everyone for your input so far. I'm not a GunZ developer so even if you hate everything I write you don't have to take it as if they're all on board with this as it gains more detail. At the same time however, I encourage everyone who comes across this to read everything in the first post and truly on-topic, clear replies and try to understand what they're saying and search for reasoning. Reasoning is the most important part for changes. It's just a game but children don't make video games. Adults do.

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